Networks: Peer to Peer Servers vs. Clien ...

What is really better? vs. OverviewPlayStation 3Peer to Peer (P2P) Servers - Is a server that is created by a game developer and one user simulates a server while everyone else simulates clients with the same rights. XBOX 360Client Servers - Is created by the console's company that everyone connects to and no one has server rights.Computer networks may be ****fied according to the communications protocol that is being used on the network. See the articles on List of network protocol stacks and List of network protocols for more information (5). They communicate with the server that has the authority to control the rules in the game, world simulation, and player input process. Clients communicate by sending small data packages in a high frequency (20 to 30 per second usually) generating audio / video and also sends data from input devices (keyboard / mouse, controller, mic...etc.) for processing.Due to network bandwidth the server only takes snap shots of the world's state to send to the clients and takes some time to travel. This is what the ping is for when you go online with a computer, the higher the ping the slower the snap shots will come to you, the lower the faster. With many other variables problems can arise to cause more latency (lag) in a game.Advantages / Disadvantages P2P Servers (PlayStation 3)Advantages%26bull; Reduced latency (lag)%26bull; Reduce or eliminate the need for servers%26bull; Updates can be frequent (for better online experience)%26bull; No traffic%26bull; It doesn't affect your other games if one game's server shuts downDisadvantages%26bull; High percentages of connections can't be made%26bull; Non-inform information dispersal%26bull; Duplicate every sent data for each client%26bull; Updates can be frequent (sometimes happens too often)%26bull; If the simulated server (peer) leaves the whole game shuts down Client Servers (XBOX Live)Advantages%26bull; Single connection for each client means lower overhead and reduced bandwidth%26bull; NAT (Network Address Translation) issues almost eliminated %26bull; Very few updates%26bull; Server can add features

%26bull; Tokens

%26bull; Filtering

%26bull; Connection monitoring

%26bull; Packet aggregation

Disadvantages%26bull; Increased latency (lag)%26bull; Cost of developing and running%26bull; If one game's server shuts down all of your games shut down (traffic...etc.)%26bull; Can be harder to develop with or debugMental Note: Presistant online games (Massivly Multiplayer Online Role Playing Games) on the XBOX 360 are in P2P servers that's why Microsoft dosesn't charge you for those and developers do. ConclusionIt might be a hassle for developers to create their own servers but if you really look at it they have been doing it for years. Like for example World of Warcraft, Tabula Rasa, Counter Strike all have their own servers. With the PlayStation 3 developers have to do the same thing but in the end it pays off for us consumers. In 2007 there was an outage with XBOX Live and Microsoft said it was due to traffic with all the users. That won't happen with your PlayStation 3 games they have dedicated servers for each game so if Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare servers shut down I can still play Warhawk. If Sony's networks do shut down it would only be PlayStation Home and the PlayStation Store not the games. I'm not saying XBOX Live sucks I'm just saying in the long run Sony's console will have more solid online experiences. Resistance 2 is a perfect example of this because since they have dedicated servers for each game that means higher numbers playing online at once. One thing you'll notice a lot with Sony's console is that if the simulated server / client leaves the match the whole game shuts down. On the plus side if a simulated client leaves nothing happens and you can actually join a match that already started with no slowdowns. Whichever online service you choose they're both good but in the long run P2P servers are much better than Client servers. I do think as of speaking now XBOX Live has the upper hand.SourcesNetworks and Networking (was originally in my console war blog)Source Multiplayer NetworkingGameDev.net Metal Note: If you really want to get into the technical sides of things just check out some of my links to clarify things for you. *Update*When I say PlayStation 3 games will have dedicated servers I mean for each developer not every single game that goes online. If a game is made by a different developer than it will have a different server but if two games are made by the same developer things will be a little different. Since P2P networks simulate servers / clients it almost eliminates the need for the server in the first place. With that said they can easily use the same server for another game from the same developer and it should be ok since they (P2P) don't calculate as a whole besides the battles. Whether they do this or not I don't know, I don't program I just know how things work which is half of the battle. I just figure that developers can share the server since XBOX Live is connected to so many games why can't other servers do that same thing?Networks: Peer to Peer Servers vs. Clien ...
It has been my understanding that only a very select few of the games in the PS3 library use dedicated servers.Can you name six games that use their own servers ?I'm not saying there isn't six - just curious is all.Networks: Peer to Peer Servers vs. Clien ...
I.. think you flipped the two examples around on the photo captions, heh. XBL is largely P2P.



I'd also disagree with your assessment about the servers going down. To access a list of games, you're still connecting to a master server on a PC - on the consoles there's still even more back-end connections made before you can reach the list of open servers. If Sony's link goes down, PSN just becomes inaccessible - unless it supports direct IP connections?
[QUOTE=''SecretPolice''] It has been my understanding that only a very select few of the games in the PS3 library use dedicated servers.Can you name six games that use their own servers ?I'm not saying there isn't six - just curious is all.[/QUOTE]PlayStation 3 doesn't have a network like XBOX 360 does. That's why every game developer has to worry about online with the PlayStation 3. With XBOX 360 the online is provivded my Microsoft so if anything happens you must consult them first. PlayStation 3 is only going to have PlayStation Home and the store as their network besides that it's developers. Unreal Tournament 3 has this or Resistance: Fall of Man any online game is run by developer's servers.
Dedicated servers are not the same thing as peer to peer.
[QUOTE=''Makari'']I.. think you flipped the two examples around on the photo captions, heh. XBL is largely P2P. I'd also disagree with your assessment about the servers going down. To access a list of games, you're still connecting to a master server on a PC - on the consoles there's still even more back-end connections made before you can reach the list of open servers. If Sony's link goes down, PSN just becomes inaccessible - unless it supports direct IP connections?[/QUOTE]Online MMORPGs on the XBOX 360 have P2P servers other wise everything goes through Microsoft. When you go online with Halo 3 you'll see a number representing how many players are playing in that particular game type. That's what Client Servers can do over Peer to Peer Servers.Don't you remember the outtage on XBOX Live around Christmas of 2007 you couldn't go online because of trafic. With the picture thing I took that from the source engine that does the same with both networks. Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare I think three days after release and the servers were down for some reason but I could still play other games online. If that would to happen to the XBOX 360 version all the games would go down because they're all connected to one place.
only 4 games use severs for the ps3 oh and a 360 game supports more players than any of those games.
[QUOTE=''SecretPolice'']It has been my understanding that only a very select few of the games in the PS3 library use dedicated servers.Can you name six games that use their own servers ?I'm not saying there isn't six - just curious is all.[/QUOTE]only 3 or 4 do.
[QUOTE=''Arnalion'']Dedicated servers are not the same thing as peer to peer.[/QUOTE]Peer to Peer servers are controled by developers so each game has its own server. If one game goes down than other game servers still stay up from other developers. So with Resistance 2 it's going to be running of Insomnaic's servers not Sony's.
Does anyone honestly give a crap? You really won't notice any of this clientside.
[QUOTE=''blackice1983''] only 4 games use severs for the ps3 oh and a 360 game supports more players than any of those games. [/QUOTE]lol, than how do you explain 60 player death match in Resistance 2?
Uhhh.... dude, there are so many mistakes in that post I don't even know where to begin.XBox 360 barely has any games that utilize dedicated servers. Most games use a P2P system, where one of the players is the ''host'', ie the server. In the long run, P2P clients are rediculous as it creates multiple points of failure, instead of one point of failure. This is because, if one peer lags, everyone lags.Dedicated servers are the way to go. It is the way that XBL was supposed to head, but never did. Instead XBL users are paying for P2P, which costs Microsoft the same as it costs Sony.
[QUOTE=''Andrew0987'']Does anyone honestly give a crap? You really won't notice any of this clientside. [/QUOTE]Actually you would notice because the servers will handle differently.
[QUOTE=''rimnet00''] Uhhh.... dude, there are so many mistakes in that post I don't even know where to begin.XBox 360 barely has any games that utilize dedicated servers. Most games use a P2P system, where one of the players is the ''host'', ie the server. In the long run, P2P clients are rediculous as it creates multiple points of failure, instead of one point of failure. This is because, if one peer lags, everyone lags.Dedicated servers are the way to go. It is the way that XBL was supposed to head, but never did. Instead XBL users are paying for P2P, which costs Microsoft the same as it costs Sony. [/QUOTE]Yea I think he has the two mixed up. PS3 dedicated servers 360 P2P.
[QUOTE=''Some_One_Plays''][QUOTE=''Andrew0987'']Does anyone honestly give a crap? You really won't notice any of this clientside. [/QUOTE]Actually you would notice because the servers will handle differently.[/QUOTE]No you really wouldn't. I imagine microsoft is competent enough to provide speedy servers for its 360 owners.
I don't have either PS3 or 360 so it's difficult to say, I don't usually play on anything but dedicated servers since I have a slow internet, and when I do I don't really pay attention to what kind of system it's using. But I do remember WarRock having P2P which was horrible, I hope that was just the bad netcode since I think BF Heroes will be P2P as well.
[QUOTE=''rimnet00''] Uhhh.... dude, there are so many mistakes in that post I don't even know where to begin.XBox 360 barely has any games that utilize dedicated servers. Most games use a P2P system, where one of the players is the ''host'', ie the server. In the long run, P2P clients are rediculous as it creates multiple points of failure, instead of one point of failure. This is because, if one peer lags, everyone lags.Dedicated servers are the way to go. It is the way that XBL was supposed to head, but never did. Instead XBL users are paying for P2P, which costs Microsoft the same as it costs Sony. [/QUOTE]lol, you're wrong because when you go into Halo 3 for example they show states of how many people are playing online. With Sony's console you would have to go to a developer's site to see your states or how many people are playing the game. XBOX Live can shut down due to traffic the PlayStation Network doesn't do that because everything is P2P. Like for example if I sign out of a game with the PlayStation 3 version and I'm the simulated server / client than the whole game shuts down. If this happens with XBOX Live the whole server reloads up just look at their site. Microsoft keeps advertising that they have a good match making system. Sony's site says nothing about that because they don't run the servers themselves. With XBOX Live Microsoft is running the servers so we pay for them while PlayStation Network is being run by developer's servers so we don't pay.
resistance, warhawkand i think motorstorm are the only games using dedicated servers on ps3
newsflash, xbox live is largely p2p.
[QUOTE=''EntwineX''] I don't have either PS3 or 360 so it's difficult to say, I don't usually play on anything but dedicated servers since I have a slow internet, and when I do I don't really pay attention to what kind of system it's using. But I do remember WarRock having P2P which was horrible, I hope that was just the bad netcode since I think BF Heroes will be P2P as well.[/QUOTE]That's why somes times there're so much firm ware updates but if you play Warhawk for the PlayStation 3 you'll see ping numbers. When you go online with XBOX Live you don't see things like that and will only have match making systems or something else.All PC games have decdicated servers so if one game's server shuts down you can still play Counter Strike or something. You'll also notice the ping a lot with PC games.